The following is the transcript of an interview with Fiona Hill, former White House Russia expert, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on March 9, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia stepped up its aerial attacks on Ukraine following the Trump administration’s suspension of intelligence sharing and military equipment. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Moscow has carried out hundreds of attacks using ballistic missiles and drones. For more now we’re joined by Fiona Hill. She is a senior fellow at Brookings, and during the first Trump administration, she was the senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council. Good to have you back.
FIONA HILL: Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the U.S. pauses of lethal intelligence sharing, including targeting data for U.S. provided weapons like HIMARS, we also know it extends to satellite imagery, which is no longer being shared with Ukraine. What’s the practical impact of that and the military freeze?
HILL: Well, I think we can see the impact. It’s certainly, on the one hand, emboldened Russia to really step up the attacks. And it’s also not just blindsided, but also partially blinded Ukraine. I mean, we heard from the previous segment that there’s still some sharing with allies like the United Kingdom, of course, which is part of the Five Eyes sharing with the United States. But frankly, none of the other allies, including the UK, have the same access to satellite imagery as the United States does. So even if there is some sharing, not much restrictions, there certainly has an impact. And frankly, I think it’s going to be an impetus to other allies to start stepping up their own capabilities and questioning themselves about the virtues of sharing with the United States. I mean, this is a two way street. We have to remember that other countries also share pretty vital information with the United States, even if the scale is not quite the same.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Canada, the UK, Australia, among those who do so. You think they will essentially punish the U.S. by not sharing intelligence?
HILL: I’m not sure whether it’s punishment, but it’ll be a lot of questioning about what actually happens with this, because if you’re bundling together intelligence, and then effectively, the United States is putting restrictions on that. Was that pre-discussed with our Five Eyes allies, for example, or with other allies? Particularly in the midst of, basically, a conflict that is, as we’ve heard over and over again, the largest land war in Europe since World War II. I mean, this is really unprecedented in terms of the actions of the United States in this regard, because it’s not just affecting Ukraine. Again, it’s having knock on effects for all of our other allies who are directly affected, all of our European allies that are directly affected by this conflict.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Trump said on Friday, when he was asked if this uptick in Putin’s bombing was directly related to the U.S. halt, here’s what he said.
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DONALD TRUMP: I actually think he’s doing what anybody else would do. I think he’s- I think he wants to get it stopped and settled. And I think he’s hitting them harder than- than he’s been hitting them. And I think probably anybody in that position would be doing that right now.
(END SOUND ON TAPE)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yet earlier in the day, the president had posted on social media he was considering possibly putting sanctions on Russia. That’s a contradiction. What do you make of what he said?
FIONA HILL: I make of it exactly what he said. I mean, he’s actually, obviously, putting himself in the shoes of Vladimir Putin and saying that if I were the aggressor, that’s exactly what I would be doing if I wanted to make Ukraine capitulate. So, I mean, yeah, he called it as it is. I don’t believe what he said for a second about the sanctions. I believe more what he just said there in the Oval Office, sitting behind, you know, the resolute desk. I mean, I think if that’s what you can take away from this. He actively- that’s–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Believe the president when he says things.
HILL: I think you should, yeah. I mean, he is the president of the United States. And he made it crystal clear, I think. And he sees, you know, obviously, the Ukraine- Ukrainians, and he said that in the oval office during the meeting with President Zelensky, that he sees them on the back foot, as losing, and he’s basically telling them that they have to capitulate. Very clear.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don’t have the cards, was the line he kept using then.
HILL: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I know you were at the Council on Foreign Relations this week, as was I. I had an interview with Trump’s envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, and when we were discussing the president’s decision to cut off Ukraine. He said, Ukrainians brought it on themselves, and the decision was like, quote, “hitting a mule with a two by four across the nose. You got their attention.” It’s quite a statement, comparing our ally to a farm animal here that needed to be beaten. Do you think it was right to say the Ukrainian government, though, was just not getting it?
HILL: Well, what they weren’t getting is really what President Trump wanted directly from them, which was obviously to have President Zelenskyy make a personal agreement with him in the Oval Office, in front of all the cameras, to thank him profusely for all the aid that was already provided to Ukraine over, you know, successive administrations now, and basically to sign a deal on rare earths minerals, and then basically leave immediately after that. And clearly, President Zelenskyy didn’t really get that message. And I think there’s a very important element here. In diplomacy, you really should only be speaking in your native language. And I think that there was- a lot of this was lost in translation. First of all, President Zelenskyy didn’t fully understand that this agreement was just purely with President Trump. And you may remember, if we all go back and watch that, I watched it many times just to try to figure out exactly where things had gone wrong, and there were multiple points, but there was one point when President Zelenskyy basically said, look, you know, we had deals with your- your previous presidents, basically with Obama and Biden, and President Trump immediately dismissed all of that. And basically said those deals were not worth the paper they were written on, all the commitments that were made–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because it’s not me.
HILL: –because they were weak and it wasn’t me. And President Zelenskyy didn’t quite follow all of this, because, like the rest of our allies, he actually thinks that commitments made by the United States are supposed to hold over successive administrations. And what we learned there, and what he learned there, was, that is not the case. You’re essentially going to have to make a new commitment with President Trump. It’s a personal commitment, and that was what he was being told, and he didn’t fully understand. And I think in future, when the Ukrainians are meeting with the Americans, they ought to have translators with them, because as good as President Zelenskyy’s English is, there’s two things that he’s missing there. He doesn’t quite understand the way that President Trump operates, although I think he’s probably got the message now, but he doesn’t always understand the nuances. And I would also think that our side, on the United States’ side, could do with some interpretation as well, coming also from President Zelenskyy. So my advice to President Zelenskyy and to the team around President Trump is, use interpreters. That’s what they’re there for.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And your own government’s interpreters.
FIONA HILL: That’s absolutely right. Your own government’s interpreters, not- because you actually asked that question, whose interpreter we used, and General Kellogg couldn’t answer the question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, for Steve Witkoff, who met with Putin for three and a half hours.
HILL: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Europe seems to be taking these threats seriously and looking at an alternative to the American nuclear deterrent and umbrella. That’s- does that mean the Transatlantic Alliance is gone?
FIONA HILL: Well, it doesn’t mean that it’s gone, but there’s a bit of, a kind of a one sided attempt to rupture it here on the part of the United States. I was also at the Munich Security Conference. I heard Vice President Vance’s speech. I was standing next to a couple of very prominent Europeans who were completely in shock. And immediately after that, as you well know, there were many statements coming out of Germany, as well as countries like Sweden, basically asking whether the United States could be trusted on nuclear weapons. And we have to remember that Ukraine had nuclear weapons that it gave up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they gave them up.
HILL: That’s correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: With the promise of the security guarantee that was not delivered on.
HILL: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Fiona Hill. Thank you. We’ll be back.
